"This begs the question: is the experience of an Apple product the experience of buying or actually using it? They are obviously both experiences with the brand, but the former is a tiny experience in the grand scheme of the experience one will have with their actual Apple product.

At Starbucks, the experience is the store, and then I get a cheap commodity that lasts 20 minutes. Not so with Apple. The experience is the product and lasts 2-3 years on average.

Based on this thinking, I don't see it as the same thing as Starbucks at all, and don't think it's a bad move to sell Apple products at places like WalMart...or I guess it's Walmart ever since the rebrand."

- Craig Johnson

"Touché Craig, but I don't 100% agree.

Yeah, the Apple product is the largest experience, but aren't the first touchpoints of Apple's brand and even larger impact? How am I first introduced to their products? How do I feel when introduced? Am I in Walmart focused on getting a good deal on groceries when I first test out the iPhone, or am I in the Apple store surrounded by the entire branded Apple experience of their staff, their complete product line, their facilities, etc?

I see Apple chasing short-term sales, and not long-term brand equity."

- Dustin

"You are never first introduced to Apple at Walmart. Whenever is someone buying groceries, then says, "Whoa...what is this little thing with what looks like an apple on it that someone took a bite out of? I wonder if this brand could be trusted with my money."

Never.

You hear about Apple from anyone you know that has an iPod or anything else and they tell you about how amazing the product is and how it will change your life. Apple doesn't have to do much other than show up and make the product available at that point. The product is so amazing that once you actually see one, you are already sold. It's just a matter of whether or not you have the money to spend.

I would agree that WalMart is no the ideal place to sell Apple products. But if you live in a small town, you don't want to have to travel to a big city in order to experience the product and purchase one in person. And there's no way it's worth Apple's money to put an Apple Store in every small town in America. Yet I would imagine most people in small towns own iPods."

- Craig Johnson

"Great points again Craig. I agree that folks in small towns need access to buy the products and that its widespread enough that your first hearing of the iPhone isn't by seeing it at Walmart. But I standby the point that what Starbucks did by selling coffee at grocery stores to make it more available to the masses is just a two-step dance move away from where Apple current sits with offering their products for sell at more and more non-Apple storefronts. If someone can't buy Apple products in their small town, and Apple's brand and products are as incredible as they are, then let those potential customers go to the Apple website and make the purchase - they'll still make the purchase because they'll still want that amazing product. Its not about complete control over the experience, but it is about maintaining a certain degree of that control.

My point is this - would you want to buy an Aston Martin in a Ford Dealership?"

- Dustin

"Interesting commentary - I have to agree with Dustin - I live in a small town where Walmart is the closest store (yuck) but will travel to get the whole Apple experience. Diluting that experiece will sell in the short run, but ultimately doesn't create a Apple-customer for life - it's that experience that ensures the Apple love, in my humble opinion. Access to Apple products is beginning to resemble Starbucks - everywhere you look, but diluted, which I think will hurt them in the long run. Not coveted anymore, not about the experience, about sales not the feeling. Amazing product available at Walmart, yes, but is it still amazing when it's available at run-of-the-mill Walmart? So how does Apple top that? Amazing becoming average. . ."

- Andrea Colby

"I think what makes this such an "Apples" (pun so intended) to X comparison has to do with two things:

1. The overbearing force is not Apple's brand but Walmart's brand. Walmart is such a strange far-reaching brand that literally sells everything; its personality doesn't so much rub off on the products it sells as it simply acts as an empty shell or container for the goods.

A place where one can find Minute Maid next to organic juice next to Nikon next to Memorex next to Sony next to Hoover next to underwear is already so confusing and broad that it doesn't cause the consumer to relate these products with the retailer.

Consumers will choose their outlet of choice probably based on their own personality. The cool-kid or curious-new-user will go to the Apple Store, the geek will configure and buy online, the casual buyer will go to a big-box store -- whichever one this may be.

2. Starbucks' end product is produced in front of your eyes in-store. It's a big part of the experience, and therefore more affected by location and surroundings. This is where the consumer would start having thoughts about the quality of the goods, the quality of the staff and how this affects their cup of coffee. The only ones turned-off by shrink-wrapped iPods at Walmart will be a small subset of style-conscious, cooler-than-you consumers.

To that extent, setting up Apple kiosks to sell more complicated products like high-end notebooks or iPhones at a Walmart may not be the best idea. This is where they succeed with the so-called "genius bar" at their own stores. The impression that one is getting top-notch, knowledgeable service -- something that may not come across well at a kiosk in Walmart."

- Alvin Diec

"Didn't read through all comments but jumping in with a real world example. Kanakuk Kamps is an experience not unlike Apple in that the user is highly engaged and returns at an extremely high rate. Kanakuk on the other hand doesn't perform as well on the front end of the relationship and not as well right at the natural end of it. This is, in part, seen as part of the slow slippage in the number of new families that sign up. Thanks to the downturn in the economy, and digging deeper, I was able to finally see that. (forest for the trees I guess) We are now turned directly into those waters and paddling like mad to be unforgettable at every stage of the relationship. That includes this post, transparency and genuine communication with the world. A willingness to share the good and the bad. For more (or less) of Kanakuk check out my blog insidekanakuk. All that to say that I think the long term experience is most important but the "buying" moment must be consistent for long term health of the brand."

- Jay Holden

"So, Jay, the question for you would be: Would you deny someone ready to buy the ability to purchase if the environment in which they were gonna buy wasn't ideal?"

- Craig Johnson

"I think I would agree with Dustin, I ended up buying my iPhone at walmart, and the whole buying process was terrible. The seller barely knew how to do the set up process and I ended up spending an hour there just waiting.

When people buy an Iphone they aren't just buying a phone. They are buying one item that is part of a much larger community. This can be easily felt when buying from an apple store. Your purchase is backed by a much larger entity. It isn't just some random phone being sold by some barely capable employee. I think that this can eventually devalue the overall apple brand.

Just my two cents."

- David Hopper

"Great conversations and point! Jay, great real life scenario to a subject close to your heart. It boils down to short term profits vs. a sustained brand presence.

Here's another example that came to mind, Yuengling Beer. When Yuengling beer was only available in South Carolina it had a sort of exotic, rare, or nostalgic presence about it. Every time I traveled there I couldn't wait to drink some (even tho I'm allergic to beer and don't really drink it). There was just something cool about not being able to always get it (which is rare in our globalizing world). However, as soon as they made Yuengling avaliable in Georiga and Tennessee I lost interest. Now, I see Yuengling trucks at the local Jiffy Grocery store or any tom, dick, and harry gas station. Yuengling is now sitting next to Colt 45 on shelves. It would be interesting to see if the national distribution of the beer increased short term profits, but ultimately depleted its core brand essence of being "rare" and ultimately destroying its sustainability.

Great topic."

- Blake Howard

"One more point I'd make on this topic...its not so much about denying someone the ability to buy, but how much control you exert over the buying experience. I would argue that the two are not mutually exclusive."

- Dustin

"Great point Dustin. I wonder if Apple could create some sort of new type of vending machine that they could put into a Walmart that would make the buying experience top-notch for those buyers.

Just an idea. Good thinking, everyone."

- Craig Johnson

"I agree.

Apple's brand is distinct and has a unique perception in the eyes of the customer. Although most companies strive to get a product into the hands of majority, this can eventually evolve into a diluted brand - especially for companies like Starbucks and Apple that have a niche market.

Apple has a strong loyal consumer-base and brand equity. These types of consumers are the ones who spread the word; who attend the Macworld conferences; who constantly upgrade their Apple gear for the latest versions. These are the innovators - the Sneezers. To sacrifice the innovators for the sake of the majority can be a dangerous move for Apple.

As Seth Godin would say, "In a crowded and busy world, fitting in and not standing out is the same as being INVISIBLE. When the Sneezers stop sneezing, they eventually stop looking, and when they stop looking - you're invisible." [from "Purple Cow"]"

- Antwon Davis

"[...] was reading a post from Dustin Britt from Matchstic and I decided to comment on it. It may seem irrelevant, but I think the topic is [...]"

- All You Need is 1,000 TRUE Sneezers « AntwonDavisDotCom

"[...] was reading a post from Dustin Britt from Matchstic and I decided to comment on it. It may seem irrelevant, but I think the topic is [...]"

- All You Need is 1,000 TRUE Fans | 4th Park Studios™